Live Blog: Kwame Kilpatrick Trial Day 33 - FOX 29 News Philadelphia | WTXF-TV

Live Blog: Kwame Kilpatrick Trial Day 33


I'm Sure M.L. Elrick will have a field day deconstructing the cross examination at 5 and 6 tonight on Fox 2 News.  And don't forget tot log on for his Daily Take Away of Kilpatrick Inc on trial at MyFox  He's out talking to attorneys now across from the court house, and  you'll see that at 5 and 6.  Court resumes tomorrow at 9am, see you then.


And then Thomas says so it must be the truth  because you're saying it's so.  Bullotta objects as argumentative, the judge sustains.  So just when you think Thomas getting smooth, the little devil inside jumps out.

Thomas asks if just because somebody's name is up there he's responsible for Pavledes extorting him?  He's referring to Kwame being Mayor.

Thomas asking if he engaged in a series of actions for the government where he made tapes, wore a wire... etc. Yes. Did they ever ask him to call Kwame?  No.  Never asked him to call Kwame and take a trip down memory lane saying remember that 10,000 I paid you.  No.

And Thomas is done.   And so is Kado.  And so are we for the day.


Thomas now asking about "the gospel According to Lou."  That's Pavledes the former Cobo director.  Wants to know if there were people in power over him.  Kado says yes.

Thomas now asking about Kado giving Kwame money.  Asks where he got the money.  Kado says from the safe in the Cobo store.

Asks where he met with Mayor.  Kado says Cobo or his office. 

Thomas says you heave no specific recollection? No.  Know where it was. No. Know who it was with? No.

Did you go into a secret room with police officers outside the door.  Kado does' remember, doesn't remember what time of day it was or what the mayor was Mayor.

Thomas says the Mayor didn't ask for $10,000.  Kado say right.

Thomas says you gave him $10,000 and you don't remember where or when or what the mayor was wearing?  What year.  Kado says 2002 or 2003 or 2004 it was snow but does' remember specifically.

Thomas has backed down a little here, not treating Kado  as combative, more like a dotty old uncle.


Thomas is now asking about when Kado started supporting the Mayor. Judge is jumping in now and saying he testified to that yesterday and he's saying the same thing today.

Thomas says he thought that was for the jury to decide and Judge says she'd never invade the providence of the jury.

Thomas asks about the money he says Kwame called and asked for and if he knew whether or not Derrick Miller ever gave Kwame the money. Kado says now.

Thomas asking who he supported politically.  Kado says yes to about a dozen and a half names, say he even contributed to Alonzo Bates.... but tells Thomas he didn't testify at Bates trial.  Neat how Thomas slipped in that Kado supported another politician who turned out to be a crook.


Judge jumps on both Thomas and Kado and admonishes them for stepping on each other.  Mr. Thomas you have to let him answer the question and Mr. Kado you have to let him ask. Thomas says he's just trying to control the witness so he doesn't volunteer anything inappropriate.  Then Thomas asks if he can treat witness as an adverse witness, judge says of course this is cross. (you dummy)

Thomas is now leading him through a bunch of questions about his visits to doctor about concerns he has dementia.

Thomas asks if he never told agents, has never been diagnosed.  Yes.  ASks if he told agents he was beginning to suffer from dementia.  Kado says yes.

Thomas say so you're telling us now that you're correcting you're looking at documents and correcting your testimony and your memory is better now.  Kado says he just said his memory was not as good now.


Bullotta is objecting  to Thomas  line of questioning and Thomas say if we're going to have a speech objection we should do it at sidebar.  Bullotta said the exact same thing yesterday.  Sour grapes Mr. Thomas.  Got some chuckles in the court room though. 

Thomas is asking Kado about his testimony that Kwame called asking for money.  Thomas asks if he ever told them it was after Kwame was elected?

Thomas is asking if government asked him to review statements.  Kado says they didn't tell him this is right and this is wrong.

Thomas asks if he thinks as time as goes on is memory more frail.  Kado says he doesn't know what is frail.  Judge says he doesn't know what frail means.  Thomas says I've got it judge.

Kado says his memory is much worse.

Thomas asks if he told agents he was having a problem did  you tell them you were suffering from dementia.  Yes.

Thomas asks if he went to physicians for lack of memory.  he's says no.  Kado says he told agents he thought he was suffering from dementia but then found out it was a legal tern.


Thomas is asking about the dates Kado met with the government.  The judge says Mr Thomas he's already testified he met with the government 15 times so if you have a different number come out with it.  Thomas says just let me ask did you meet with the government 15 times.  Kado says yes.

Bullotta asks if he was going to do whatever he could to help them.  Kado says no, he didn't decide yes or no he wanted to find out what did they want.

Thomas asks when he decided to cooperate.  Now he's asking if he retained all his lawyers right away, asks if his lawyer told him to cooperate so he wouldn't go to prison.  Kado says yes.

So Thomas comes out of the gate being a smart ass, get's admonished by the judge, then get admonished again for washing time going over the same ground over and over.  We could make this trial a lot shorter by putting Thomas in jail right now and letting Kwame go.  No? Darn, because I'm finding Thomas annoying right now.


Court is back in session.  Shea took Kado apart this morning, now it's Thomas's turn.

Thomas is asking if Kado is working for the government today.  Kado say he's working for the TRuth,  Thomas says your truth?  Judge Edmunds says Mr. Thomas come on.

Thomas asks if he knew one of his employees was talking to his employee about skimming.  Kado says no.

Thomas asks if he knew he was taking money from one of his businesses and that money was supposed to go to the government.  Yes.

Thomas asks if he hired a bunch of high prices lawyers to help him with his tax problems.

asks if he had a lot meetings with his lawyers about this.

Thomas wants to know if Government told him specifically the government was interested in Kwame.  KAdo says no.

THomas asks if he figured it out pretty quickly.  yes.


Shea now asking if Kado suggested he wouldn't pay to get food service contract renewed. showing transcript: Bernard:  you say payments to anyone like who?  Kado:  anyone, after that, I'll go to jail.  Bernard: You'll go to jail?  Kado: yeah in wont' pay any of it, you know it.  I won't pay anyone again.

then Bernard says you ain't gotta pay I've never said nothing to 'bout about paying' nobody. When have I say when did I say when have I said anything about  paying to get the contract?" 

Shea, this is BErnard telling you he never asked you to pay for a contract right.  Kado says yes.

And Shea is done, Thomas is up next but the judge calls for a 5 minute break first.


The quote is, "you don't even want to pay me though?"  Shea says Bernard's not telling him if Kado doesn't pay you won't get contracts.  Kado says that exactly what he's saying.  Shea says but that's not what it says there.

Shea says you remember two words exactly from a conversation from 4 years ago that's remarkable.

Shea says Bernard never said you have to pay me or you're never going to get a contract or your contract will be canceled.  No.

asks if the payment in 2005 was his idea.  Kado says it was my idea.


Shea moving on to the lottery bill Kado say Bernard ran up at his brother's store and that Kado paid.

Kado says it was $85,000

Shea skis if he remembers telling agents it was $35,000?  Kado reading the criminal report. Shea asks if in 2005 he ran up a 25,000 bill not 85,000 bill.  Kado says he ran up more later on.

Shea asks if Bernard paid him back.  Kado says he didn't pay him back.  Says Bernard paid his brother and his brother paid him back.

Shea says so something between Jan  and march in 2008 Bernard ran up an 85,000 lottery bill and it's not something you discussed with agents?  Kado says he doesn't remember.

Shea ask if Bernard ever said if you don't pay me you won't get contract.  SAys Bernard told him it would take a long time and he'd have to pay lawyers.  Says what Bernard said was, "you don't want to pay me?"


Shea says ironically none of you got the food service contract.  Kado says right.

Shea now asking when Bernard started leasing office space, says yesterday you said 2004 why are you says 2004.  Kado says I don't know, I don't remember.  Shea says it's important to me, I need you to be precise.  ASks him to read the document.

They've figured it out and it's 2004.  Shea asks if Bernard only paid rent for a couple of months.  Kado says right.

Now showing new documents, rent check from Maestro, 9 checks from Jan 2005 to move 2005, Shea says he paid at least 9 months out of T hat bank account.  Kado takes a long time to answer but says yes.

Shea says in 2006 you told him he didn't have to pay rent.  Kado says he doesn't remember. Shea says you didn't have to let him stay.  yes.  Kado says he told him to leave, the building was for sale.

Kado says he stayed 4-5 years and he paid 9 months rent.

Shea's says you didn't have the contracts anymore and  you didn't  have anyone to please from 2006 yet let him stay to 2009 or 2010.


Shea asks about Aramark, international company, partnering with OdgenJ, Kado's company, and was that contract was going to expire in 2008.  Kado says 2009.

Shea asks if he recalls interview where he told agent that Tom Tuskie was going to big the Food SErvice contract in April 2008.  Kado says probably.

Kado says the contract was going to expire in 2009 but the bids were going out in 2008.

Shea asks if he was going to remain as a partner but also bring in another partner, like ARchie Clark and Henry Hassan, and that's why it was part of his discussion with  BErnard.  Says it wasn't just something Bernard dreamed up. correct?  yes.

says Bernard was just advising him on certain aspects how that could be done.  Yes.

ASks if he didn't want their names on the contract because it might look bad, would use an LLC to conceal involvement.  Yes.


Shea now playing another excerpt.  Bernard says you told me to let it alone?  Kado says I know.

Kado tell him he has to pay is taxes in ten days.  Bernard says wow. Kado says whatever you need to make you happy.  Bernard says he'll get on it.

Shea asks if Kado did indeed ask him to start work.   Kado agrees.

Now Shea is playing a conversation from march of 2008.

Shea asks if there came a time he called Bernard back because Bernard got him a meeting with Meah.  asks if Kado wanted meeting moved up.  Yes.

on tape, Bernard is slightly out of breath, says he's doing his excesses.  Kado say I gotta pay my taxes.  Bernard says I'll try to move things up.

Shea asks if he's cooperating with the government at this point and they're asking to you make the calls, and Bernard doesn't know.  yes.  Kado says some of them were recorded without his knowledge.

Shea says this is all at the request of the government, but you were really owed that money. Yes.

SAys Bernard had no reason to believe there was inappropriate in getting the city to pay.  Yes.

Shea says Bernard couldn't close the deal. still nothing.  says Bernard didn't have the juice.  Kado says yes.

Shea says Bernard was doing this despite people in the administration that didn't want him to get paid.  ASks if Miller was standing in the way because he thought Kado was cooperating with the feds. Kado says yes.

Asks despite this Bernard was still trying to help him? Yes.



Couldn't get the sound bite cued up so they're going to the transcript.  Judge says we'll have the recording after we clean up the technical problems.

Shea refers Kado to page 17.  He's got the wrong page on the projector, now he's asking for the right page, he gets it, and has to pull off another staple.

This is not the  oyster bar, it's from the breakfast meeting.

Bernard says I,I,do al this stuff to get this stuff on the table and now you tell me you don't want to pay me.  But you already, but you know you already said that's a deal. You told me that.  It's all ready to happen and that that's just like you always giving your example....

Shea puts up another section,

Bernard accuses Kado of using him again.  Bernard says you want me to leave it alone.  Kado says yeah.

Shea's says what that makes clear is that you weren't going to pay him and don't do anything more for me.  Yes.

In fact Bernard stops work.  Kado says he doesn't know. Yeah.

Shea asks if he  called a couple weeks later and asked Bernard to start work again.  Kado asks for a transcript.



Shea now showing another part of the transcript.  Says Kado was saying he wasn't going to pay anything to Bernard until he got paid.  Kado says yes.

Shea says Bernard was okay with that?  Kado says yes.

on tape says I'll give you 160,000 check of cash.  Bernard says check.

Shea says Bernard told you he wanted to be paid by check.  Yes.

Shea says you reneged on the deal and told him to stop work.  Yes.

Shea is playing another portion of the recording the prosecution didn't play yesterday,  Feb 8th meeting at tom's oyster bar.


The jury is in place and Shea is back at the podium.  Kado is in the witness box.

Shea says when they left off they were talking about what Bernard was doing to help him.  Kado says right.

Says Bernard started work before the meeting at Tom's Oyster bar.  Yes.  Continued after.  Yes.

Says financial terms got set on FEb 8th 2008.  Hans Kado a transcript.  Grabs a copy for himself off the prosecutors table, pulls off the staple and fires up the projector.  ( it's not always my slow typing that delays these blog updates, just saying')

He's referring Kado to page nine.  Asking if he sees section below one that says conversation with waitress.

Talks about doing addiction and Kado asks how much. Bernard says Yeah, Kado:Ten, Bernard: Huh? Kado:Ten, Bernard: Ten, Kado says how much?

Shea says that is your offer not Bernard demanding ten percent.  Kado agrees.


"all rise" court is back in session.


It's interesting that Amru Meah's name has come up.  He was head of the City's building and safety department when we were doing a lot of stories about abandoned homes being used for rental fraud and mortgage fraud, we even did some stories to help folks get there homes fixed up.  The one thing that always seemed to happen when we did these stories was getting a call from the Mayor's office press staff, before Meah would call back, asking what the story was about.  Even if it was routine it appears the Mayor had to vet the story.  I can't say Meah was overly cooperative and it seemed like pulling teeth whenever we needed information.  He was a Kilpatrick man through and through and retired not too long after Kwame left office.


We had a little excitement in the overflow room just before the last break, a woman watching the trial fell ill and had to be taken out on a stretcher.  This is twice now we've seen the court medical staff in action.  There was no interruption of the proceedings.  We're on the ground floor and the trial is on the 8th floor.  I'm told the woman was alert and talking to paramedics on her way out.


And the jury files out, we're getting a 20 minute break.


Shea is preparing to play another recording. 

It's another call about setting up a meeting.  Shea asks if this would be a good place to take a break.  and the Judge says yes.


Shea is getting ready to play another recording.   this is from Feb 2008, it's a phone conversation.  Bernard calls Kado says he talked to all these folks this morning and... Kado interrupts and says when can we get together,    3 or 4,  Bernard says 3:30 Tom's or something.

Shea says Bernard told him he just did some work but you didn't want to talk on the phone right.  Kado says yes.

Shea says 2 days later you had another phone call and suggested meeting at Tom's.  Yes

Says you knew before he called that Bernard was trying to get inform and there was no deal at that time. Yes.

ASks if Bernard continued to do work.  Yes.

ASks if he met with Amru Meah.  THat's what he told me.

asks if Bernard asked for additional information to substantiate claims, like invoices.  yes.

to justify what he was seeking.  yes.


Shea's is going to play a recording.  The judge tells Kado that Mr. Shea will also read from the transcript because the don't have more than one copy of the transcript.

Shea has the transcript on the screen.  conversation shows them adding up contracts to 1.6 and Kado then tells Bernard he'll give him 160,000 in cash. 

Shea asks if he was totaling up contracts he wanted Bernard collect.  yes.

Kado is telling Shea he's mixing up contracts.  Bullotta is helping out.

Shea says you agreed to pay Bernard 10%.  Yes.

Shea says why did you tell government one figure yesterday and now saying a different figure today.

Kado tries to explain, says sorry, the total money we spent on... Shea does a little math 962  minus 250 is 712.

Shea says he just didn't have the precise number.

Asks if Bernard was going to assist.  yes.


Shea's says in 2008 you thought your were owed money by the city.  Kado says right.

Shea asks if he was talking to Amru Meah, Building and SAfety Director and others? Yes.

asks if he sought Bernard's assistance to get money.  No.

Kado says government asked him to record the meeting and he had no intention of doing anything with Bernard.

Kado says he was told to call to arrange the meeting.  Shea says you didn't tell Bernard about the hidden purpose of the meeting.  Kado agrees Bernard didn't know about recording.

Shea asking about building he leased to City and had allowed to be renovated for use.  Kado says he had three choices, do it on his own, and if you don't open on time you pay for lost revenue, or let them do it.

Shea says you felt you were out of pocket for those renovations and sought Bernard's assistance.  Kado says yes.

Shea asks what the 1.6 million was about when the renovation money was 250,000.  Kado says some of the money was from equipment they took from Cobo... and gives a long answer.

Shea says my fault for asking the question, says what was in play was the 250 for the cleaning contract and you didn't ask him to help getting the whole 1.6 million.  Kado says yes he did.



Kado and Bernard are talking in restaurant, there's lots of background noise.  The recording was supervised by agent Beeckman. 

Kado is talking about the cleaning contract, says he was the victim and they got him out of Cobo because he fought them. 

Shea says in that conversation he told Bernard he didn't want the contract.  ASks if he said he didn't want the cleaning contract.  Kado says he doesn't want those contracts under those conditions.  Shea says it was because he could work under the conditions set.

Shea says so you wanted out.  Kado says yes.


Shea asks if being patted down made him think Bernard was suspicious of him.  Yes.

Kado says but at that first meeting he wasn't cooperating with the government yet.  Shea asks if he got patted down at earlier meetings.  No.

Shea says at those earlier meetings he wasn't suspicious of you at all.  No.

Shea says after 2005 you lost the cleaning and electrical contracts.  That the contracts were coming up for re bid and renewal.  Are you suggesting city dropped contracts because you stopped paying Bernard.  You didn't want those contracts. Kado says yes.

You didn't bid on those contracts.  Kado says yes hi did bid.

Shea is going to play an excerpt from yesterday's recordings that wasn't played by the prosecution.


Shea asks if he described a meeting with Bernard shortly after getting his target letter.  Says it sounded like a memorable meeting.  Kado says yes.

ASks if Bernard patted him down looking for a recording device.  Kado says he had never before been patted down like that.  Shea asks if that's something he'd probably not forget.  Kado  says yes.

Asks if he described at length to agents his relationship with Bernard.  Says but throughout that he didn't describe that meeting.  Kado says, "I told him that."  Shea asks you told him that day?  Kado says I told him, I don't remember which day.

Shea says here's why that's important, wasn't it 8 months later at a meeting with IRS agents.  Kado says he told Bullotta.  Kado says he told them right away after he got the target letter.

Shea's says let's be clear, after you got the letter in 2006 you signed a cooperation agreement.  Look at the letter, it's right there on the desk.  Do you  have... what I showed you earlier today.  Approaches, shows him agreement, asks date, says look at last page, is that your signature.  Yes.

Asks if this is first meeting after target letter.  SAys he knows you had meetings before the letter.

Kado says he told them abut the meeting before he got the target letter, his first meeting with the government.


Shea asks if taking cash from stores reduced his tax burden.  Kado says no. 

ASks about his tax conviction.  Kado says he took that from a different store that was closed.  Kado agrees he was convicted of that for 2002 and 2003.

Shea asks if it was skimming cash.  Kado  says that's not what they said, they said they claimed he skimmed cash from a closed store, how can you skim from a closed store,.

Shea asks if he reported on the cash he paid Bernard.  Kado says he did report the cash from the store on his taxes, and used that to pay Bernard.


Shea says you don't have any records showing how much you paid him, your testimony about how much you paid is inconsistent.  Kado says correct.

Shea asks if he remember telling agents he paid between 180 and 230,000.  Shea refers to report that says he told agent that.  Kado says yes.

Shea says yesterday you said 300,000.  So you don't really know how much  you paid him.  Kado says that's right.

Shea says do you remember yesterday you said $40,000 to $50,000 a month.  Says this just makes the point that you don't really know how much or how often you were paying him.  Kado says yes.

Shea asks about the final payment, asks if in the recordings played yesterday there was a dispute about what he owed Bernard.  Says Bernard says you paid for a while then fell off.  Asks about hiding under a rock.  SAys Bernard took as payment for what you owed him? Kado says okay kind of non-committal.


Shea asks if he never told agents he was paying Bernard to get Easley off his back.  Bullotta objects.

Shea says he'll clarify, asks if Bernard was providing services.  Kado says he wasn't providing services. Shea says you already described some of the services he was providing.  Kado says I already  had the contract, what to I need consulting services. 

Shea says okay, but Mr. Kado, isn't it true that before the contracts were approved you asked Bernard to help.  Kado says yes.

With respect to Easley somehow he got her off your back.  yes.

Shea asks you didn't know if he paid her or not but got her off his back.  Yes.

Kado jumps in here and says but I was still paying... and Shea interrupts and says there's not question here yet.


Shea showing Kado a purchasing agreement memo that says council approved the Janitorial contract. ASks if he remembers now.  Yes.

Kado admits Bernard helped him get that approval.

ASks if Ladara Easley was trying to get electrical contract, asks if Bernard assisted in advancing his interests.   Kado says she couldn't get it financially and he was forced to take her as a partner.

Shea: ISn't it true sir...  that you contacted Bernard that Easley was sniffing around on that contract.  Kado says no, he didn't know.  Kado says she wanted to take money from him every month.

Kado says he told Bernard he'd give him money to keep her out of the way.

Kado says that was extortion too, not help, he was giving Bernard money to pay Easley. 

Says it was easier to give Bernard money.


Shea asks if he saw Bernard as someone who could assist him with these opportunities and agreed to pay him for this assistance.  Kado says no.

Asks if he had an agreement with Bernard and would pay.  Yes.

Shea asks if Bernard helped assist in keeping Pavledes.  yes.

ASks if Bernard would intercede with janitorial contract.  No.

Kado says director asked him if he wanted it, says he told him he'd take it if the price was right.

Shea asks if Council had to approve it.  Kado says no it was up to the Director.


Shea's shows Kado a criminal report, Rowina Shook is the agent on the report, asks Kado to read it silently to  himself.

Shea asks if it refreshes his recollection.  Kado says he forgot, it was long time ago, but he remembers now.

Shea asks if he already had a number of interests at Cobo.

Shea asks about those: Sundry story, pop, candy chips. Yes. Temporary stores during Auto Show.  Yes.  Restaurant and Bar with Ogden, along with catering.  Kado says no sit down restaurant but a sit down bar, in conjunction with Ogden.

Shea asks about additional ambitions concerning Cobo, open to additional opportunities. Yes.

Shea asks about cleaning contract he wanted to acquire in 2002, also learned about electrical contract. 

Asks if Kado also had some concerns if Pavledes would remain as Director and if he wanted him to stay.  Kado says yes.


Shea shows letter to Kado, asks if next time he met with agents they asked him to cooperate, asks if he signed a letter that day.  Kado says he doesn't remember.

Shea shows him Feb 2006 cooperation agreement, does it refresh your memory?  Kado says yes.

Shea asks if he's continuing to cooperate even today?  yes.

Shea asks if he's known Bernard since 80's, did he meet him at the Millander center store Kado owned, did he know he worked in McNamara's office, former wife was a congresswoman.  Yes.

Shea asks did he know he was a Wayne county commissioner.

Asks if he let Bernard buy things on credit at store.  Kado says no.

ASks if he told agents he let Bernard buy on credit.  No.

Asks if he doesn't remember saying that.  No.

Shea asks if he showed him a document if that might refresh his recollection.  Kado says yes.


Judge Edmunds reminds Kado he's under oath and John Shea asks if he remembers his interview in Jan 2005 with federal agents.

Shea asks if they discussed Cobo Hall operations.  Yes.

Shea asks if it includes his involvement and others as well. Yes.

Asks if he described his various business interests.  Yes.

Shea says what was not discussed were Kado's illegal payments to Lou Pavledes.  Yes.

Shea asks if the target letter came later, the letter asking if he wanted to discuss a plea bargain. Yes.


Sidebar is over and the jury is filing in.


We're starting with a sidebar this morning.  The attorneys are gathered around the Bench of Judge Nancy Edmunds.


The Picture is up and the court room is filling up.  Jim Thomas and Kwame Kilpatrick made it through the line on the north side of the building just a few minutes ago.  They're in the court room now along with Bobby Ferguson and his attorneys and Bernard Kilpatrick and his attorney John Shea.  Karl Kado is waiting in the witness stand.   And the bailiff gives the "all rise."  Court is in session. 


Good morning from the Theodore Levin Federal Court House in downtown Detroit.  Another long line, out the door this morning, prospective jurors for another trial.  The folks down here tell me they  haven't seen the court house this busy in awhile.

Ken Martinek is Senior Producer-Investigations for Fox 2 News.  You can contact him at

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